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  1. Today
  2. The End of an Era, The Door to a New Adventure

    Now that V3 is really ending I'm starting to remember all the fun we had this version. But cheers to the future, I am really confident that Horizons will be amazing.
  3. Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

  4. Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    Wasn't stolen at all - sorry if I wasn't clear. It just gave exp on the death of a player, so, naturally, someone just made a script so that they die billions of times a second to abuse it.
  5. Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    I didn't mention chest shops, I said admin shops As for @redninja685 he didn't intend for it to be intended towards anything, I asked him about it when he posted it and he was just joking in his usual manner. I do agree that oversight is necessary, we're looking into the econ stuff at the moment.
  6. Yesterday
  7. Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    @Destruct Hmm it sounds like you are saying that rogue raids and other raids create new gameplay in the form of hunts and other interactions. I have always been a bit of a lone wolf in minecraft and have thus not really experienced this aspect of a raid. And I am happy to hear you do gear yourself that does make it feel that you put something on the line during a raid. My incentives to play on atherys are completely different from you as far as I can tell. I would like to set up a cool shop, explore the world that is created and go on adventure with others. So at the end of the day I do not look for fame or anything really tangible. FInding cool stuff is my reward. So our differences in how we look at it could be explained by this difference in incentives. And understandably so that pvp requires a diverse group of players as otherwise you exhaust the playerbase that you have. Raiding the same towns as you say is not fun for you and not fun for the people getting raided as it becomes boring and frustrating. I agree with you on it not being great when there is no new reward system or different reward system set-up to compensate the change. But at this time we can't really say whether the new reward system will suffice. I also found that for me it was often not just about being good or not. I can fend for myself in one on one quite well, but when more people join it suddenly does not matter how good I am. So I disagree with you that it is just about getting better. Especially not when you win while defending against someone results in them camping your spawn to kill you. I had been planning on getting a bit more active in pvping as that was why I joined a PvP town, but this experience just really turned me off to that idea. Other than that, might it not also be useful to attract a new crowd of playersthat are interested in different kinds of PvP as that would diversify the player pool and will allow for a less raid dominated PvP place. Which would be good for Raid pvpers as they would be only a part of the PvP experience instead of The PvP experience (tm). So newer players can more easily start out PvPing and get good. Ah thank you and with what they said about wanting people to travel the map, it might become a moot point as teleport might not even be available in Horizons. Which would alter that part of the raids significantly. The stealing of Experience sounds like something that could be abused indeed, but good to know that something like that has already been implemented so it is possible. Thank you for your explanations some points I had not yet considerd and other I had. Of course I do not fully agree with eveything you said, but I think I can understand your point of view now.
  8. Damn I'm cool.

    1. Aroth2000


      Are you really though

  9. Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    Ok back at home. As for Rogue raids and being fun for both parties - I suppose it depends on which side you're on and what the circumstances are. For example, If a party is rogue raiding a notorious PvP noob town - something like what was of Storms of Thesse, Salacia, that roreg town in a box I can't recall the name of, then those guys are gonna get peeved for about an hour about getting rogue raided because that's easy pickings. But, that's just at the start of the Rogue raid - once you get to the meat of the rogue raid - there's a lot of risk involved. If you're a part of a nation that's known for a high mob-mentality for these things like Ithero, you're going to get chased down for rogue raiding that noob town - and ultimately, probably killed if you aren't that great a rogue - there's still a lot of risk involved from beginning to end. In other circumstances though - like one PvP town rogue raiding another PvP town - there's a much greater risk, because, if you kill or TRY to kill one person for their gear you're gonna get driven out fast and probably, again, killed. I don't know about others - but I feel like yeah, there's something to be said about the motivation of "being amongst the best" and winning fights and being with your pals, but, all of that is only worth the journey if there's some thing you can get from it - whether that be loot, a place at the top of a meaningful leaderboard, a bounty, ect. Also, I think that you have to take everyone's motivations in to account - unless you won't have enough players. For example, In the later part of v2 as well as vEVO - our town had only one other PvP town we could essentially raid and that's it. All we had to raid were the Israeli bunch in the form of Pomme de Terre and Istabulero - we couldn't wait outside of non-PvP towns because there was no reason for anyone to ever leave their town. ever. It gets a bit boring when all you have to raid is about one town. I feel like a major cause of PvP just dying quite a bit was the introduction of warp signs. Warp signs just allowed people to never ever ever leave the comfort of a no-PvP zone if they didn't have to. They didn't need to leave it to go to the nation market, move their stuff from one place to another, ect. I'll be honest - it's rare that you have fight that people aren't gearing up, as it's much more worth your while to just have the gear you need on you. Yeah, it might be a minimal amount of gear in the form of a weapon, armor, and food - but it's still gear, and gear means loot. I also think there's also a risk for everybody involved in PvP- maybe even more on the side of the attacker. The attackers can successfully just kill a guy, but then the defenders come out in a group and kill the attackers and get their gear - including the gear of the guy the attackers had killed earlier. It really depends. But if you do get anything from this - and anybody can tell you this - is that THERE IS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS RISK IN PVP - on both sides. Oh, just though of something - I've had this happen to me once or twice. I sometimes go on these lone rogue raids by myself to just try and catch people off - sometimes people or geared or not, its whatever - I'm always geared. I've had it happen that I sneak up on an un-geared person to try and kill them while their doing whatever. It happens that they're a class like conduit or something with good crowd control - they either try to just run away and get in a house after CCing me or, I've had this happen, they CC me hard enough - and kill me - without any gear on. It happens. Honestly it depends on the loot - and player loot will always be a good source of loot and motivation. Answer to this is - it depends. Not going to answer about the roles of attacker/defender in PvP as I've already clarified. In my opinion, you're not all completely wrong - I do believe that with a lot of items in the economy - as there was in v1, people will take that little risk of going out to PvP AND they will feel that the reward they get from killing people is totally worth it and a good reward. More people would PvP if they don''t care as much about the losses and getting all the other person's gear if they do triumph. Keeping gear in general isn't great without a replacement, while, yeah, if you're just not good at your class or PvP or whatever you're going to lose your gear more often while the people who kill you will have a surplus - you're going to feel turned off, but, it's just about getting better. Diminishing the loot in terms of gear without a proper replacement that works is a large turnoff for current people that enjoy PvPing and you're just going to alienate the few that still intend to commit to the server in terms of PvP. Yeah I agree, you just respawn and whatever and go back, could be annoying, it's whatever - I've gotten used to it. They did however used to have money lost in v1 as well as heroes exp to the killer - but people abused the exp, dunno about the money lost.
  10. Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    I'm assuming that was directed towards my statements but if not I apologize but I see it as a chance to prove a point ? Without an official authority recognizing or setting the value of yora, naturally players will result to a barter system. This will lag the economy at the start and cause a conflict of currency. Some people will be using yora others will be in a barter system or likely hoard their items until the confusion clears, that only hurts growth. Allowing staff to establish price ceilings for items gives the needed confidence in yora and makes it the undisputed currency. It does not really decide the price but the range. Prices can still rise and fall based on supply/demand within the range.
  11. Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    Well from what you said there was more of an issue with implementation rather than the function of chest shops themselves. If done the way you pointed out whats the issue? Paired with methods that lower inflation theres hardly any risk. I see chests as a tool for mayors to build an economy in their towns and give new players a clear path for advancement. I did this in v1 and it worked well. New players would gather and sell to your local shops due to convenience. Thus giving you supplies to build with or supply you with precious materials for war. In turn they get a small compensation that most of the time they did put back into my town by buying houses/property. Sometimes if I was running low on capital to supply this local market I resold the materials globally for a higher rate. Yes eventually a new player would become experienced enough to exchange their items globally with other players for the higher rate but this usually takes atleast a month or two.
  12. Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    Thanks for clearing the air for now, I’ll write you a nice post about your questions/concerns and my view on them when I get home. (Cause I like arguing about PvP lol)
  13. Vorske defeated - Viktory is with Shol!

    Ask and you shall receive! @Gasfiend Now if you would be so kind and reply to my PM.
  14. Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    Oh no, sorry @Destruct. I did not mean to make you be the spokesperson. I felt like you talked from your own experience and did not talk for everyone else and I liked that. Hmm I can see how I misrepresented that. It was meant as an example that other players also had their own opinion that can be different and that trying to talk for everyone was a bad idea as that generalizes or polarizes the discourse. I also did not need to use you as an example and did not have to be condescending in my previous post. I am sorry about that too. I could have made my point without resorting to that. Hrmm I should also make clear that I did not mean that if you talk for yourself that you sound presumptious and selfish. Quite the opposite. It irks me when people start talking as if they speak for a whole group while not giving any indication that they actually have that position within said group. I also like to hear the reasonings behind someones' opinion on why someone thinks what he thinks and not hear a 'just trust me I know what I am talking about' claim. @Captain SjieltHmm, yeah I should not generalize myself. Especially when I do not like it when someone else does it. Sorry about that. I do my best not to do that so if I do so in the future, please call me out on it. I highly appreciate it. Now on to your question. I am no expert at PvP it is why I ask why rogue raids are or would be fun for both parties. As you can read in my previous post I do not see any fun for those attacked. This is of course a biased opinion due to the nature of how I have been pummeled to death with raids where I could not fight back. the details of this can also be found in the previous post. I do understand that there are or need to be incentives for PvP and general play, for some it is the loot, for others it is the killing itself, other players do it for the groupplay and for others still it is the fun of ruining the day for someone else. These different incentives have been also documented by others and further analyzed. The most wellknown result from these analyses is probably the killer, explorer, achiever and socializer archetypes (http://mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxpW2ltDNow). These archetypes are of course a simplification of the player interaction. But it does show nicely how each group interacts and is connected to others. Anyway back to the topic. I feel that the system as it is now is imbalanced where the defender has nothing to gain from defending and everything to lose, whereas the attacker has nothing to lose and everything to gain. This is of course only taking into account raids where players do not gear up. So not when players fight other players who are grouped and know how to fight. If the incentive of sweet sweet loot from players is lowered and instead there will be other rewards for PvP would that not suffice? And if not why not? And as it seems to me that this change is equally beneficial for raiders as well as defenders. (As gear becomes not useless to wear). Why is this change not beneficial for attackers? Am I looking at it from the wrong way? Could it be that the risk of losing something is diminished by this change so the feeling of risk and reward lowers. If it is about the high stakes, high reward and how to minimize risk and maximize reward is than I can see a point for why even keeping your own gear can be seen as a detriment. But I did touch on this in my previous post where I suggested that dying could have more consequences than just having to respawn, get a sword/bow and teleport back into the fray.
  15. Creature Creation Contest Winner!

    Should have linked his entry
  16. Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    Woah, woah. He was just generalizing. Bit of irony there, sure, but not an attack.
  17. Last week
  18. Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    Do you even know how PvP works, how rewards for PvP work, and how available those rewards are? From your post is seems as if you have a little grasp but that's it. Apparently also I'm now THE spokesperson for the entire archetype of PvP because I wanted to make a comment on someone's post. That's chill. If I want to be vocal about what I like to play, how I play it, and how I can make it better - apparently I'm presumptuous and selfish.
  19. Restrict Crop Growth to Certain Biomes

    To add to this, I'd like to see the same work with lumber, and when the map is generated (if its not already) generate nation specific ores. It would also be cool to see ores grow in large, localized veins, rather that it bitty pockets all over.
  20. Restrict Crop Growth to Certain Biomes

    Well, if more uses are implemented for food items ( maybe look into Terra firmas system, you actually have to eat proper nutrients or receive debuffs) that would change.
  21. Restrict Crop Growth to Certain Biomes

    I think that it would be interesting to see food decay slowly (meats etc rotting faster, but giving more sat), and only be found in smaller quantities (idk, limit plant growth per chunk, or look into Terra firmas nutrient system), but should restore a lot more hunger. Like, you get three steaks from killing a cow, but each will fill half your bar or more. Also it would be nice to see hunger go down slowly, and have different debuffs at different levels, idk maybe that would be overdoing it.
  22. Howv you been?

    Yeh. But different genres and roolbooks. Think you'd dig y, really.
  23. Restrict Crop Growth to Certain Biomes

    I like this idea but I feel like if this doesnt get implented in a good way it will just be clunky and annoying
  24. Creature Creation Contest Winner!

    Can I see how this mob will look like?
  25. Howv you been?

    So tabletops is Dungeons and Dragons right?
  26. Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    How about when you get killed you lose a bit of your money, your items (not your armor) and some durability on your armor. Seems like a good system to me. Maybe you should also keep your weapon when you die I dunno. But Sund, wont people abuse the fact that you lose money upon death and start to camp you? Make it so if you recently died and lost some cash, you cannot lose more moola for a certain amount of time.
  27. Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    But with more gear wouldn't the issue with expensive classes be nullified? As all classes will have expensive gear? You are also claiming that full item drop would definitly be the best incentive for Pvp without addressing any of the points raised by Aller. Why is that? You do not even explain why you think this just that we should believe you... Why? Because it is the only reason why you would join again? So automatically it is the only right way to do it? That sounds to me a bit arrogant and presumptious. Also you assume you are a speaker for the whole PvP group of atherys, is this not a bit presumptious of you? Especially since another player said So yeah. Your own opinion is only your own. Let others speak for themselves if they are against these changes and let them also discuss why. Assuming you speak for the whole of a group without any clear indication that you are in fact a spokesperson of said group is bad conduct and a big no no in discourse I also find your argument on the rogue raids a bit strange as to me it sounds like a zero risk strategy instead of high risk. Dying is no penalty especially not with a conduit or two within your party so what risk would there be? Loss of gear? No as you risk nothing during the raid. you hoard your expensive gear back home and only gather gear from your victims. So the game design of such gameplay heavily favours the enjoyment of the attacker while diminishing the enjoyment of the game for the victims. As only they have something to actually lose in this scenario. I would go even further that dying in itself has never been a real punishment as you do not lose levels or any other progress, just items. Which you do not take along and your victims do. Hmm would that be a good implementation? Dying lowers your level or damages your gear? Maybe a grace period in which you can not be teleported by conduits? Which is a method to have zero risk in losing even in dungeons. It is like a resurrection spell, with none of the penalties (and a relative short cooldown for minecraft). These raids as you describe them are why I never went around with any gear it was useless. It did not protect me against a 5 man team. SO I too hoarded all my gear not wanting to lose it... Hmm now that I think of it... I actually used to toss a lot of gear and resources I did not use instead of hoarding. As I would rather not have it than give it to people who would kill me for it. I can be quite spiteful that way. So me not trading with others was simply due to me expecting that I would be gibbed as soon as I met them ingame. And yes this happened and getting your stuff stolen during a trade is no fun. In that sense the way pvp worked on atherys had a very negative impact on my enjoyment of the game. The item drop system caters to killers who like killing people when they can not fight back. With the changes proposed here it sounds, to me, that this way of playing would become more difficult. Which to me is a good thing, as it breeds better interplay. So is your complaint really that there is no other reason to PvP? that is being addressed as Aller points out. Or do you just want that no risk and high reward gameplay that you enjoyed and that made you feel like a baddass, without risking anything?
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