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A'therys Horizons

Looking forward to Horizons?  

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  1. 1. Looking forward to Horizons?

    • Yes
      90
    • No
      14


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3 minutes ago, Henneke von Kovar said:

So like we gonna banter or we gonna collectively think of ideas. I mean, is there any con to pulling PVP away from being centered on towns and more on a real area/objective?

TBH I think it's a good thing to do for the longevity of PVP on the server. You can only raid a town for so long an have fun doing it and after there really wasn't much else to do with the old system. Centering PVP in the Shattered Lands and giving players objectives to fight over adds more fun and reason to PVP. Now the only problem I have is that the rewards need to meaningful and huge unlike the old conquest system where they were bland and meaningless. If the prizes/rewards aren't meaningful and actual have an impact then players will just revert back to the old way of PVP and we will be back where we started.

1 minute ago, Celeras said:

 

I didn't say pvp takes no skill...

Also I think you're missing the point of my posts entirely. I'm not against pvp at all, I just think it is by far the least important aspect of Minecraft. When some people treat Minecraft as their go-to pvp experience it confuses me.

It's fun and fast paced which is something people enjoy. 

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6 minutes ago, Zygook_Nackshar said:

It's fun and fast paced which is something people enjoy. 

But there are other games like it with better mechanics.

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Just now, Henneke von Kovar said:

there's also games with better RP mechanics ;)

I disagree. Minecraft lets you create a character as well as change the world. There aren't many games that do that.

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I'd be up for two conquest systems using the same mechanics (plugin).

One for the shattered land where conquering a point could generate yora or some produce (ore/wheat/stone/etc) to the capturing nation.

The other one would be sacking the capital or essentially making the nation your puppet. When all the conquest points outside of the capital (except the one in the capital) are captured you can take the one in the capital, allowing you to either sack it once or generate a tax on the loosing side. However, you can't capture the other nations capital if a nation has captured x amount of your own points. Further, you're not allowed to capture another nations points unless your nation has formally declared war.

Dunno if either of these are plausible to do or if there even is an interest in it, but imo it'd be kewl.

Edited by raxiam
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1 minute ago, raxiam said:

I'd be up for two conquest systems using the same mechanics.

One for the shattered land where conquering a point could generate yora or some produce (ore/wheat/stone/etc) to the capturing nation.

The other one would be sacking the capital or essentially making the nation your puppet. When all the conquest points outside of the capital (except the on in the capital) are captured you can take the one in the capital, allowing you to either sack it once or generate a tax on the loosing side. However, you can't capture the other nations capital if a nation has captured x amount of your own points. Further, you're not allowed to capture another nations points unless your nation has formally declared war.

Dunno if either of these are plausible to do or if there even is an interest in it, but imo it'd be kewl.

Second idea is cool somethings thats been talked about in the past. I think it really brings a nation together, because before PVPers are usally seperate from their nation and do their own thing. Doing this would unite a nation and the players would have to work together to grow their nation and defend it. 

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31 minutes ago, JupiterRome said:

some of the stuff people have purposed because I don't think any of it is mindless PvP if you actually read it

The term is referring only to the "turn pvp on everywhere" ; akin to PvP at the start of V2.

I'm glad that people ARE proposing ways to improve the server experience. The point I was making was that without something besides "turn pvp on everywhere so we can attack any town", people will get bored with doing so, either because everyone has tried to join their side or has been driven off because they're tired of dealing  with it. Taking away a town's choice to disable PVP forces those who would rather avoid combat kills a part of the playerbase that would rather focus on building a town; especially given that we're focused a good deal on building with the Conquest Reforged Texture pack. That noted, I'm equally against the people who say a player should individually be able to turn off their own PVP status - as venturing out into the Wilderness is MEANT to be a risk. In the same sense that we don't make PvP players engage in Merchant activities to level-up their class; but they can if they would rather purchase their gear rather than hunt for it via monsters / killing other players. Options of PVP/No-PvP towns should continue - although there should be a "stick to your choice" note across the board on this. Furthermore, proper rewards systems for PvP hotspots encourage competition over an area with discernible benefits : and keeps the complaint of "they're harassing my town" down by a moderate degree.

 

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7 hours ago, Xathas said:

The term is referring only to the "turn pvp on everywhere" ; akin to PvP at the start of V2.

I'm glad that people ARE proposing ways to improve the server experience. The point I was making was that without something besides "turn pvp on everywhere so we can attack any town", people will get bored with doing so, either because everyone has tried to join their side or has been driven off because they're tired of dealing  with it. Taking away a town's choice to disable PVP forces those who would rather avoid combat kills a part of the playerbase that would rather focus on building a town; especially given that we're focused a good deal on building with the Conquest Reforged Texture pack. That noted, I'm equally against the people who say a player should individually be able to turn off their own PVP status - as venturing out into the Wilderness is MEANT to be a risk. In the same sense that we don't make PvP players engage in Merchant activities to level-up their class; but they can if they would rather purchase their gear rather than hunt for it via monsters / killing other players. Options of PVP/No-PvP towns should continue - although there should be a "stick to your choice" note across the board on this. Furthermore, proper rewards systems for PvP hotspots encourage competition over an area with discernible benefits : and keeps the complaint of "they're harassing my town" down by a moderate degree.

 

Actually agree with most of this, but my only issue is this talk of "PVP hotspots" At the end of the day if the rewards are not good/meaningful PVPers will resort back to raiding each others towns and we will be back where we started because players won't be gaining anything from the hot spots. Something I was considering proposing was making the Shattered Lands an entire conquest zone. As far as I know there is going to be special ores/materials in the shattered lands so instead of placing them in random spots we could make outposts/mines/forts/castles with these resources in them and make them all conquerable so that way whoever controls them gets to collect them. This would provide a legitimate reason for players to PVP at conquest points, because they would be fighting for control of resources/leveling spots to keep power and it would remove a lot of the town raiding, because PVP towns would have to be spending their time and resources into defending their territories. 

The picture is from ESO, but it shows how we could set it up with outposts,mines,etc scattered that players could fight for.

TESO_cyrodiil_map.jpg

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51 minutes ago, Zygook_Nackshar said:

Actually agree with most of this, but my only issue is this talk of "PVP hotspots" At the end of the day if the rewards are not good/meaningful PVPers will resort back to raiding each others towns and we will be back where we started because players won't be gaining anything from the hot spots. Something I was considering proposing was making the Shattered Lands an entire conquest zone. As far as I know there is going to be special ores/materials in the shattered lands so instead of placing them in random spots we could make outposts/mines/forts/castles with these resources in them and make them all conquerable so that way whoever controls them gets to collect them. This would provide a legitimate reason for players to PVP at conquest points, because they would be fighting for control of resources/leveling spots to keep power and it would remove a lot of the town raiding, because PVP towns would have to be spending their time and resources into defending their territories. 

The picture is from ESO, but it shows how we could set it up with outposts,mines,etc scattered that players could fight for.

TESO_cyrodiil_map.jpg

I'd like to point out that while this is a good idea, the nations are the ones that will be conquering points, so you have to consider how these materials would be transported to the populace of said nation. I can imagine a nation trying to collect as much as it can before selling it off at a crazy price because they can, and just reaping the rewards. You have to come up with a way to make sure that players are rewarded for taking over points for their nations.

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10 minutes ago, RuddyF said:

I'd like to point out that while this is a good idea, the nations are the ones that will be conquering points, so you have to consider how these materials would be transported to the populace of said nation. I can imagine a nation trying to collect as much as it can before selling it off at a crazy price because they can, and just reaping the rewards. You have to come up with a way to make sure that players are rewarded for taking over points for their nations.

I think you misunderstood me.There are rare materials/ores and dungeons(I think) that will be added to the shattered lands. I am proposing that instead of randomly scattering them across the map we place them around/in these outposts,castles,etc and whoever has control gains access. So the players would be the ones collecting the resources and leveling in the dungeons. It would come down to the nations to decide how to split the resources and keep their players happy. In the end the nation would have control of the outpost, but anyone who is a part of that nation can go there and have access to the resources so the players would be getting rewarded.

Edited by Zygook_Nackshar

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If a centralized PvP point is what you're looking for what you need to do is put a large portion of land aside (like the nether island but more conducive to PvP and less of that God forsaken water) in the center of the map and put the most valuable resources in that landscape in pockets and castles a small was mentioned again by Xathas. But instead of bandaiding this like we have done in the past I. E. the nether island, look at it as a holistic opportunity to sustain constant PvP. 

-Make sure the valuables regenerate. When I say valuables I don't just mean the ever needed ores, I also mean exp and special weapon drops that are exclusive to the area and difficult to get. It was common practice to take new players to PvP hotspots to level because they'd level super fast and after 20 deaths or so they learn how to not die, stick with the group and rely on their teammates which all the hallmarks of a good PvPer. As the owner or co-owner of c purple different big towns I've seen this firsthand. This also means merchants have to travel to these areas to get what they desire. I remember getting ganked once or twice by people who were actually hired by merchants to clear a big hotspot so they could take it over. The possibilities are truly endless when this kind of area is made with extreme care and commitment. 

-Make sure the landscape is conducive to PvP and PvE I. E. have choke points and back entrances and flanking zones around the castles and crevices. Don't hole up the fighters in tight quarters but don't leave with a bland boring terrain either. 

-Make sure it is beneficial to go to that place despite the risks. So much so that people prefer to PvP there over towns. If it's a better use of time to scour the landscape than raid towns, people will do that. This makes it to where PvPers will raid towns less. During times when accidental PvP hotspots happened through leveling spots or just good zones, PvP at towns would still exist but be incredibly absent. Look at it this way, if PvPers have to find something to do, they're going to PvP. If they know there's going to be constant action in a certain place, that's where they're going to go; therefore, if you truly want to decentralize PvP from towns, don't hinder objectively stop PvP by making it toggleable, but actually work toward a viability solution to change the venue. 

-Last thing, I thought I'd just add it, but instanced PvP is not the way to go ever for several reasons. It breaks immersion (shut up Brady you aren't an RPer, you can't use the "I" word). It breaks the open world. And it is a lot less rewarding than open world PvP. Have tournaments, have organized fights, make instanced PvP and open world thing if yo have to, but don't have a mod that throws players into TDM arena. This isn't call of duty. 

That is all for Brady's ponderings. Probably catch you for the follow up tomorrow. 

 

1 hour ago, Zygook_Nackshar said:

I think you misunderstood me.There are rare materials/ores and dungeons(I think) that will be added to the shattered lands. I am proposing that instead of randomly scattering them across the map we place them around/in these outposts,castles,etc and whoever has control gains access. So the players would be the ones collecting the resources and leveling in the dungeons. It would come down to the nations to decide how to split the resources and keep their players happy. In the end the nation would have control of the outpost, but anyone who is a part of that nation can go there and have access to the resources so the players would be getting rewarded.

Also, this is a good idea, I would also like to add that we should make a fast travel to the area ( assuming there's no nearby enemies) as a great perk. This could also be used by two nations who have conquested different areas to send raiding forces to the opposing national outpost to try and conquer two, or an easy way for new players who die to get back quick. Just a thought. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Edited by Brady1233
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Now I have been playing BDO a lot and the main incentive for PvP in this game is where guilds fight over resource nodes. Guilds have to place and built a fort on a node they want. Then the guild that wins and destroys all enemy bases wins the node, within certain time frame. The node provides money (also provides raw resources, but mainly for individuals) and the higher the tier of the node (1 to 3) the more money is received. After a week of holding the node, you lose it and other guild can fight over it. Would be a cool idea to implement. In the context of minecraft it could be made to give raw resources, money or both. This a lot like conquest points that were being tested, but instead of having it on a separate map, its on the main map and plus you have to build a fort which people can damage. The only problem I see with this is people digging holes and ruining the play area, but it could be protected or regenerate before the war starts. 

Anyway imma go back to hiding :P 

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On 10/18/2017 at 9:51 PM, JupiterRome said:

*snip*

 

I genuinely don't understand how you can say you enjoy chilling in your town building and talking to people but as soon as you have to build a wall and stay in there if you want 100% safety, you're sacrificing your enjoyment, you can still build your town and talk to people. I personally don't like the fact that you can happily chat with anyone from any nation because I think nations shouldn't all be big and happy. I think that the server thrives when theirs some conflict and rivalries between nations and I think PvP is a great way to provide this excitement, (Avatar was made after the fire nation attacked not when they all lived in harmony) 

*snip*

I mean, the "I don't understand why X" extends to both sides. I don't understand what is "fun" about attacking towns that are not prepared for it or don't WANT to particiapte in it. Personally, I have too many other things I enjoy in life, and only a limited amount of time to enjoy them. Forcing me to spend hours and hours to collect resources for a wall, design the wall, build the wall and THEN build the town, is not fun for me. I'm happy just mining for resources, growing trees and harvesting that, getting sheep/chickens/cows for food etc., and just have no desire whatsoever to PvP.

Why should I be denied that if it is what I enjoy doing? Why MUST I submit to people wanting to kill me? If I want that I can play other games. Minecraft for me has always been about mining, and crafting (in this case building and crafting). It was never about killing other people, if anything I enjoy working WITH other people to create things rather than destroy things. I don't understand how THAT can be fun, you don't understand how the name of the game can be fun. If there were such a thing as points for you to conquer, points that gave you something meaningful to do while fighting people, would that not be much more satisfying than killing someone who has absolutely no interest in fighting anyone?

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I know this thread got a bit dead, but seems like a good place for my suggestion based on earlier conversation.  It has to do with towns and PvP incentives.

 

Basically the Idea involves each nation forming somewhat of a build team consisting of those who don't want PvP in addition to some PvP minded builders.  They would be responsible for building each town in the nation over a few month span.  Timeline would look something like this:

  1. Nation votes to decide popular new theme for a town based on player suggestions.
  2. New town is formed consisting of the build team in a non-PvP build mode.
  3. Town layout is planned and constructed over a few months, with future PvP in mind (essentially level/arena design).
  4. Town is opened up to residency with PvP turned on.  RPers and such may also settle such towns at their own risk if they like the aesthetics.
  5. A new town is voted on (if population allows) and the process is repeated.

 

Pros:

  • PvPers frequently get a new area to do battle.
  • Variety of player inspired towns.
  • Builders and non-PvPers have another safe zone besides capitols.
  • Encourages collaboration across many facets of the population.
  • Provides a shortened timeline to building to prevent unfinished towns.

 

Cons:

  • Would probably have to start with 2 towns at first to provide more initial variety.
  • Builders might not have their desired theme selected, may be discouraging to some who have their own elaborate visions.
  • Towns are not expected to be permanent safe-havens for players who desire such places outside the capitols.
  • No guarantees that populations will remain over time, since the builders and PvPers will likely move on to new areas as they become available.

 

Perhaps there would be a town that becomes an RP hotspot and keeps PvP off, and maybe that could be one of the first two towns.  Could be an alternate metropolis and artistic hub compared to the more commercial and noob friendly capitols.  Overall, most towns would become PvP hotspots and provide fresh environments, though.

Regarding the potential for town populations to vanish, perhaps the build team would visit such places occasionally to either modify or turn it into ruins.  Ruins could eventually be fully removed by staff after a long enough time.  Or maybe each town would be allocated a critical resource/objective to defend for national bonuses, thus promoting an active population in the region.

 

Well that's all I've thought of so far, so let me know what you all think!  I hope the PvPers appreciate the extra thought and effort.  Would you be interested in map design for PvP purposes?  How do my fellow builders and RPers feel about such a system?  Is it too restrictive to ideas?  Is this best kept to the nomadic nations?  Feel free to be constructively critical!  Thanks! xD

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So I REALLY want to create a town, so Would I have to build it, I am really unsure of this, because for every town Ive been to, it had all been built, so would it be built for me, or would I have to invite a few people to join the town, and then we could all build it!\\

Second, How do you obtain more coins in the game

Third, how to the mods contribute to the game itself, like I saw extra furniture in the build server, so I'm thinking about that. And why was the build server created?

Please answer them!

Thanks,

 

MrYandereKesh (MahiKesh)

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Just now, MahiKesh said:

So I REALLY want to create a town, so Would I have to build it, I am really unsure of this, because for every town Ive been to, it had all been built, so would it be built for me, or would I have to invite a few people to join the town, and then we could all build it!\\

Second, How do you obtain more coins in the game

Third, how to the mods contribute to the game itself, like I saw extra furniture in the build server, so I'm thinking about that. And why was the build server created?

Please answer them!

Thanks,

 

MrYandereKesh (MahiKesh)

1. Welcome to the community!

2. Part of Atherys has always been making your own town! So how it will work is that you will find some friends, save up the in-game money to buy some land from your nation head, and then you will be able to claim land in the wilderness. After that you can gather materials yourself to build your own town. We will not be providing pre-built towns. This is why we have a build server for you to plan your towns before we release the actual survival server.

3. The Conquest Reforged mod adds a great deal of building functionality, which will make our world look even better. We will post more screenshots soon.

 

As for money in game, there will be many ways to earn it. Some of the ways will be from killing mobs, completing dungeons, completing quests, and selling items to other players.

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Also Im not really new to the community, I played Atherys for around a year, you invited me to Ninjin, and then I go kicked out Ha! Then I went to ar-selukk, with redninja, and joined valzanttar!

THANK YOU SO MUCH THO!!!

Or that might have been Dannie (his mc uername!)

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1 hour ago, MahiKesh said:

Also Im not really new to the community, I played Atherys for around a year, you invited me to Ninjin, and then I go kicked out Ha! Then I went to ar-selukk, with redninja, and joined valzanttar!

THANK YOU SO MUCH THO!!!

Or that might have been Dannie (his mc uername!)

If you want to be in and help run a town but not necessarily build it, maybe try pming people and see who's wanting to run starter towns. If your active, people are alsways looking for recruiters, project managers, that sort of thing. Maybe even rpers, and definitely pvpers, but that can be a bit inconsistent, and some towns can have different preferences.

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Also @Sellt @Dani @HaedHutneror anyone else, could we please create a new horizons news/discussing chat with some basic town and mechanics info, and maybe some quick summaries of potential ideas from the community. Maybe add a poll or two based on possible mechanics and ideas. I'd love to catch up but don't have the time to read this absolute saga of comments and replies.

Edited by Burnside

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I am planning for a town dedicated to greek goddess Hestia I made it on build.  In Ancient greece, there was a legend tht if the fire was put out by any chance, sickness will spread across the town, so I made a 2 block by 2block fire, and I wanted people to join it, so I made almost everything float off the ground or water.

It is in the gennian isles because it is a greek theme city!!!!

I really hope people join

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4 hours ago, MahiKesh said:

Also Im not really new to the community, I played Atherys for around a year, you invited me to Ninjin, and then I go kicked out Ha! Then I went to ar-selukk, with redninja, and joined valzanttar!

THANK YOU SO MUCH THO!!!

Or that might have been Dannie (his mc uername!)

Sorry, seems we both mistook each other :P

Yeah that was the other Dannie.

 

2 hours ago, Burnside said:

Also @Sellt @Dani @HaedHutneror anyone else, could we please create a new horizons news/discussing chat with some basic town and mechanics info, and maybe some quick summaries of potential ideas from the community. Maybe add a poll or two based on possible mechanics and ideas. I'd love to catch up but don't have the time to read this absolute saga of comments and replies.

 

Will do.

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12 hours ago, Burnside said:

Also @Sellt @Dani @HaedHutneror anyone else, could we please create a new horizons news/discussing chat with some basic town and mechanics info, and maybe some quick summaries of potential ideas from the community. Maybe add a poll or two based on possible mechanics and ideas. I'd love to catch up but don't have the time to read this absolute saga of comments and replies.

While a post outlining some of the stuff we've finalized is a good idea, we're not planning on polling the community for any gameplay decisions at this time. We believe gameplay-related discussions should remain wholly within the hands of as few people as possible, so as to create a more consistent experience. 

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On 28.3.2018 at 8:34 AM, HaedHutner said:

While a post outlining some of the stuff we've finalized is a good idea, we're not planning on polling the community for any gameplay decisions at this time. We believe gameplay-related discussions should remain wholly within the hands of as few people as possible, so as to create a more consistent experience. 

And the polling and collecting of ideas happened in the last few month of atherys ascended. All it would do now would make it more complicated and messy. :) But yeah don't worry, i had a lot of talks in the past with the player base in friday evening chats from where many of the stuff for horizons comes from. 

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  • Our picks

    • The Mortal Plane Awaits...


      v2/ Evo Monas Roth

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    • December 24, 2018

      So with the website returning to it's dark theme, we've made a bunch of improvements to the lorelanding!

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