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douhugal last won the day on September 18 2017

douhugal had the most liked content!

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  1. douhugal

    Fonjo's Mediocre Tavern [Chat]

    I want to be an enlightened slime through redstone magecraft, tinker away at dangerous contraptions and hunt for delicious redstone to further my plans of total automation! Nah just kidding, I wanna build as lagg free as possible contraptions and be a redstone engineer for exodus. I also am going to try and be a bit more into the pvp, an immortal slime does not fear death after all ^^ and if the rewards are worth it... I just hope that the rewards are not just the stuff of other people, That is no incentive for me.
  2. douhugal

    Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    Back in the day I traded with redstone, diamond and lapis. As Yora was only good for keeping your town running and your plots safe.
  3. douhugal

    Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

  4. douhugal

    Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    @Destruct Hmm it sounds like you are saying that rogue raids and other raids create new gameplay in the form of hunts and other interactions. I have always been a bit of a lone wolf in minecraft and have thus not really experienced this aspect of a raid. And I am happy to hear you do gear yourself that does make it feel that you put something on the line during a raid. My incentives to play on atherys are completely different from you as far as I can tell. I would like to set up a cool shop, explore the world that is created and go on adventure with others. So at the end of the day I do not look for fame or anything really tangible. FInding cool stuff is my reward. So our differences in how we look at it could be explained by this difference in incentives. And understandably so that pvp requires a diverse group of players as otherwise you exhaust the playerbase that you have. Raiding the same towns as you say is not fun for you and not fun for the people getting raided as it becomes boring and frustrating. I agree with you on it not being great when there is no new reward system or different reward system set-up to compensate the change. But at this time we can't really say whether the new reward system will suffice. I also found that for me it was often not just about being good or not. I can fend for myself in one on one quite well, but when more people join it suddenly does not matter how good I am. So I disagree with you that it is just about getting better. Especially not when you win while defending against someone results in them camping your spawn to kill you. I had been planning on getting a bit more active in pvping as that was why I joined a PvP town, but this experience just really turned me off to that idea. Other than that, might it not also be useful to attract a new crowd of playersthat are interested in different kinds of PvP as that would diversify the player pool and will allow for a less raid dominated PvP place. Which would be good for Raid pvpers as they would be only a part of the PvP experience instead of The PvP experience (tm). So newer players can more easily start out PvPing and get good. Ah thank you and with what they said about wanting people to travel the map, it might become a moot point as teleport might not even be available in Horizons. Which would alter that part of the raids significantly. The stealing of Experience sounds like something that could be abused indeed, but good to know that something like that has already been implemented so it is possible. Thank you for your explanations some points I had not yet considerd and other I had. Of course I do not fully agree with eveything you said, but I think I can understand your point of view now.
  5. douhugal

    Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    Oh no, sorry @Destruct. I did not mean to make you be the spokesperson. I felt like you talked from your own experience and did not talk for everyone else and I liked that. Hmm I can see how I misrepresented that. It was meant as an example that other players also had their own opinion that can be different and that trying to talk for everyone was a bad idea as that generalizes or polarizes the discourse. I also did not need to use you as an example and did not have to be condescending in my previous post. I am sorry about that too. I could have made my point without resorting to that. Hrmm I should also make clear that I did not mean that if you talk for yourself that you sound presumptious and selfish. Quite the opposite. It irks me when people start talking as if they speak for a whole group while not giving any indication that they actually have that position within said group. I also like to hear the reasonings behind someones' opinion on why someone thinks what he thinks and not hear a 'just trust me I know what I am talking about' claim. @Captain SjieltHmm, yeah I should not generalize myself. Especially when I do not like it when someone else does it. Sorry about that. I do my best not to do that so if I do so in the future, please call me out on it. I highly appreciate it. Now on to your question. I am no expert at PvP it is why I ask why rogue raids are or would be fun for both parties. As you can read in my previous post I do not see any fun for those attacked. This is of course a biased opinion due to the nature of how I have been pummeled to death with raids where I could not fight back. the details of this can also be found in the previous post. I do understand that there are or need to be incentives for PvP and general play, for some it is the loot, for others it is the killing itself, other players do it for the groupplay and for others still it is the fun of ruining the day for someone else. These different incentives have been also documented by others and further analyzed. The most wellknown result from these analyses is probably the killer, explorer, achiever and socializer archetypes (http://mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxpW2ltDNow). These archetypes are of course a simplification of the player interaction. But it does show nicely how each group interacts and is connected to others. Anyway back to the topic. I feel that the system as it is now is imbalanced where the defender has nothing to gain from defending and everything to lose, whereas the attacker has nothing to lose and everything to gain. This is of course only taking into account raids where players do not gear up. So not when players fight other players who are grouped and know how to fight. If the incentive of sweet sweet loot from players is lowered and instead there will be other rewards for PvP would that not suffice? And if not why not? And as it seems to me that this change is equally beneficial for raiders as well as defenders. (As gear becomes not useless to wear). Why is this change not beneficial for attackers? Am I looking at it from the wrong way? Could it be that the risk of losing something is diminished by this change so the feeling of risk and reward lowers. If it is about the high stakes, high reward and how to minimize risk and maximize reward is than I can see a point for why even keeping your own gear can be seen as a detriment. But I did touch on this in my previous post where I suggested that dying could have more consequences than just having to respawn, get a sword/bow and teleport back into the fray.
  6. douhugal

    Sellt’s Diary 08/15/2017

    But with more gear wouldn't the issue with expensive classes be nullified? As all classes will have expensive gear? You are also claiming that full item drop would definitly be the best incentive for Pvp without addressing any of the points raised by Aller. Why is that? You do not even explain why you think this just that we should believe you... Why? Because it is the only reason why you would join again? So automatically it is the only right way to do it? That sounds to me a bit arrogant and presumptious. Also you assume you are a speaker for the whole PvP group of atherys, is this not a bit presumptious of you? Especially since another player said So yeah. Your own opinion is only your own. Let others speak for themselves if they are against these changes and let them also discuss why. Assuming you speak for the whole of a group without any clear indication that you are in fact a spokesperson of said group is bad conduct and a big no no in discourse I also find your argument on the rogue raids a bit strange as to me it sounds like a zero risk strategy instead of high risk. Dying is no penalty especially not with a conduit or two within your party so what risk would there be? Loss of gear? No as you risk nothing during the raid. you hoard your expensive gear back home and only gather gear from your victims. So the game design of such gameplay heavily favours the enjoyment of the attacker while diminishing the enjoyment of the game for the victims. As only they have something to actually lose in this scenario. I would go even further that dying in itself has never been a real punishment as you do not lose levels or any other progress, just items. Which you do not take along and your victims do. Hmm would that be a good implementation? Dying lowers your level or damages your gear? Maybe a grace period in which you can not be teleported by conduits? Which is a method to have zero risk in losing even in dungeons. It is like a resurrection spell, with none of the penalties (and a relative short cooldown for minecraft). These raids as you describe them are why I never went around with any gear it was useless. It did not protect me against a 5 man team. SO I too hoarded all my gear not wanting to lose it... Hmm now that I think of it... I actually used to toss a lot of gear and resources I did not use instead of hoarding. As I would rather not have it than give it to people who would kill me for it. I can be quite spiteful that way. So me not trading with others was simply due to me expecting that I would be gibbed as soon as I met them ingame. And yes this happened and getting your stuff stolen during a trade is no fun. In that sense the way pvp worked on atherys had a very negative impact on my enjoyment of the game. The item drop system caters to killers who like killing people when they can not fight back. With the changes proposed here it sounds, to me, that this way of playing would become more difficult. Which to me is a good thing, as it breeds better interplay. So is your complaint really that there is no other reason to PvP? that is being addressed as Aller points out. Or do you just want that no risk and high reward gameplay that you enjoyed and that made you feel like a baddass, without risking anything?
  7. douhugal

    A'therys Horizons

    @MisChiv That would drastically change the fundamental way people play the game. It would indeed be an option, I do wonder how you can make people adhere to the rule of one raid per day, make people RP their described characters and how in such an environment you make fighting in town less than desirable. I ask this as it is easier to ignore RP than it is to ignore PvP. As anyone can claim that they are just RP-ing a bandit leader or raider. If we assume that a town ought to be relatively safe the question becomes how do you enforce this? do you make people who kill in towns criminals? what actions could be taken, what penalties when they are caught or killed? What rules and systems will allow for a social contract to be established that protects those people that are less interested in PvP and more in economic or day to day tasks? OH and something completely different: How happy is everyone that there won't be capitals without any players in horizons? I got lost so often in the capitals of atherys and I only ever needed to be there for the market....
  8. douhugal

    A'therys Horizons

    After reading everything I see a few problems happening over and over. 1. people are talking as if they speak for a whole subset of people. The people's voice is not a smart stance to take. This issue was more so happening at the start so I am happy that more players are talking in a 'what I would like to see' format. As this prevents polarization and extrapolation of points made. 2. polarization of stances. the you are either for or against us mindset , Which is fundamentally a pitfall and one that is easily fallen into. Arguments such as: 'it is only going to work if you do this and nothing else' are ultimately non-productive as others are either forced to reject it completely or agree with it. So no room for nuances or discussion. 3. People are fundamentally argueing from different perspectives, about different things while assuming the 'other side' to be villains. So any counter argument is usually dismissed and most of the arguments do not actually address what the other is saying. In this regard I would say hats-off for the staff who are clear, concise and do address the points raised by the players. 4. acting as if 'your' group is simultaneously the majority and oppressed minority. Or any other contradictory claims. It becomes very hard to take someone serious when they first argue that they deserve something because of 'reason A' while directly afterwards claiming 'reason B' which negates 'reason A'. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay on to the discussion as I do have a few questions myself. A good pvp system does not only have the attacker in mind when it is about mechanics. How does the recipient of the attack experience said attack might even be more important. It is why balancing shooters such as splatioon and team fortress is so difficult. I named these two as they do have good examples on how it is done right. But in Atherys the fact of getting gimped over and over in a town where you spawned was no fun for me. And this is not a question of getting good as it was often 1 vs 5 and they camped it specifcally when only one or 2 people were around. So I was forced to just logg off during those times, which incidentally was the only time I could be on. So this meant I had to stop playing atherys. How can we prevent such a problem? Would some kind of towns guard be an option? As rampant killing in a town where law and order is rule is a bit strange. Why were towns created in the first place? To create non-griefable areas I presume. Were they also meant as safe havens against constant killing or did that come later? Do towns create new problems in the way that towns create hotspots of players? As in you won't find people to fight in the wilderniss as easily as in a town. @JupiterRome It seems to me that you view RP as a subset of PVP. If so I can understand where you come from a lot more. On the other hand I would argue that for me PVP would be a subset to RP. So how do we address this fundamental difference in thinking? As PvP to me can be fun, but I do not play on any PvP server for a reason. Without just cause it feels arbitrary and cruel to me. In that sense I do not agree what this Vorske person says about PvP and RP being opposites as this statement destroys any kind of discourse. In that sense a balance of yin and yang ought to be possible. Maybe magical protection of towns feels cheap, so what other ways are there to create a safe zone for people who wish to be relatively safe from raiders and killers. If towns do not have such a system I do not see a point in living in one as those will naturally become hotspots for fights. Which is something I would rather not have. If towns are not safe it would force me to the wilderniss which would paradoxically be the safer place. Griefing is possible yes, but I would not be camped by other players. On the other hand in the wilderness I can not sell my services as a redstone engineer, builder, or build large redstone structures as my inventory would never be safe, I would not start large projects as any can and will be griefed in time. Making my stay in Atherys pointless in the end. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why I come to this server (in no particular order): The interesting class system Nice map Interesting lore The chance to RP Developing my love for redstone that I found on this server. Nostalgia The chance to PvP reasonable staff So if those things stay true and remain possible I will continue enjoying atherys.

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